Ten years after Muhammad Ali's death on June 3, 2016, his legacy still extends beyond the boxing ring. While most boxing fans remember Ali as "The Greatest" and one of the most recognizable athletes in sports history, those closest to him say his greatest legacy was compassion. His wife, Lonnie Ali, remains committed to the values that defined Muhammad Ali's life after boxing.
In 2025, the Muhammad Ali Center released the inaugural Muhammad Ali Index, a report measuring the state of compassion in the United States. The Ali Index included data gathered from surveys in a dozen cities on education, health care, spirituality, self-care, education, politics and sports. In an interview with ESPN, Lonnie discussed the creation of the Ali Index, what she learned from her life with Muhammad, and why young people continue to connect with his message a decade after his death.
Editor's note: This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Q: Can you explain what the Ali Index is, how it's expanding and where it came from?
A: It originated because we realized that we were not addressing all of Muhammad's legacy, and probably the most important component of his legacy, which is compassion. And we were at a time -- and we still are at a time -- in our country where compassion, we felt, was retreating and even being lost, with all the polarization, social fracture and the division that is occurring. Not just culturally, politically and socially. It was tearing families apart, communities apart, our nation apart. And so we felt that reminding people about compassion was really respecting and honoring the legacy of Muhammad because he was the torchbearer of compassion.
The Index was really [created] because people think compassion is a soft skill. But it really isn't. It's something that can be measured. And before we could start to talk about it, we wanted to measure and see how compassion was across the United States to better understand it and how we can strengthen it in areas where it was lacking.
Q: And how do you do that?
A: The Compassion Index gave us that information. Now we have expanded it to a global Compassion Index, where not only do we have the 12 cities that we had originally, but we have added eight more cities across the U.S. [and] expanded it to 12 international cities as well.
And it'll be interesting to see, first, because the first Compassion Index was done before the election, the presidential election. This one will be taking place afterwards. But it also will show how we are across the world, not just here in America. How compassion is living, or not living, in other countries, other cities.
And of course, culturally, that's going to be interesting, because sometimes compassion is part of the culture of a religion ... of a city. So, we're interested to see all of that data.
Q: If Muhammad Ali were here today to see the world as it is, what do you think the conversations you and he would have had surrounding what feels like a lack of compassion and so much division in this country?
A: It does feel that way. I mean, it's still like we're at an inflection point. Can we get any meaner or nastier?
But actually, the data is showing something different. The data is showing that we still are performing compassionate acts with neighbors, showing up for neighbors, for friends, the small acts of compassion, which are essential to growing that compassion muscle. It's still happening, and that's encouraging.
We just have to reignite that flame of compassion ... remind people this is how you connect to all of humanity. And how important it is to have the fabric of a community. Be strong and making sure all members of our country are cared for. And you do that through compassion.
Q: What is the biggest lesson from your time with Muhammad on this earth, and how have you carried that over into your work today?
A: The biggest lesson is -- actually, there's two. One is to be patient. I have none. He had an infinite amount of patience. And [second], not to judge. Muhammad was a person who did not judge others. He was a master at that. And as a result of that, because of the way he was, he showed up every day in the world with a compassionate heart. Regardless of where people came from, the baggage they carried or where they were going, he was going to love them anyway.
And that's one of the biggest lessons he left me: to continue to do that.
Q: We knew the boxer, we knew the humanitarian, we knew the activist, we knew the sense of humor. You knew him in a way that other people did not know him. Who was Muhammad Ali in those quiet moments when there were no cameras and there were no people around, when it's just you and him?
A: Very thoughtful, very pensive, very philosophical. Oh, very wise. I mean, Muhammad understood things you would never think he would even be paying attention to. I learned a lot. We all did, his children and myself.
But he was ordinary, too. He was everyday. He liked to see me cooking in the kitchen. He liked to watch sports, sporting events. He and I used to love to watch, especially in Arizona. We were big U of L [University of Louisville] fans and we would watch all the U of L sports we could get on television, which were a lot.
But he lived like a normal person. He thought of himself in some ways as being a normal person. And that's the way we operated. That's the way he showed up, not as some grandiose superhuman, but as somebody who put his pants on every day, one leg at a time, like everybody else.
Q: Did you notice any struggle with him leaving boxing behind? Did you sense a new, invigorated version of Muhammad Ali as his boxing career was behind and he became this world-class humanitarian?
A: You know, it's very astute of you to notice that. First, let me compliment you for noticing it. But no, he did not. When I married Muhammad, he'd already retired from the ring. He had no problem retreating from the ring. I think the travel and meeting people [ending] he had a hard time with, because he was so used to being on the go and meeting new people all the time. He loved it. He was energized by it.
That took some adjustment, but he also enjoyed being at home with his children. So that was the better part of that. But he had no trouble with the transition of coming out of the ring into normal life.
He found a purpose. He always found a purpose. And his purpose, he felt, was to help and uplift others, to use the platform that he had established -- that he had been on for so long, the global platform -- to bring help and relief and aid to those who could not, to be the voice for those who were voiceless and to bring the spotlight to people in need, especially in African and Asian countries, where they did not have the resources available to them and depended on the aid and the help of others.
Q: What has surprised you the most in the decades since, that these younger generations still talk about Ali? We're in an era where there's social media and things happen so fast, and things get forgotten so fast. But in the 10 years, we still talk about him as The Greatest and we see young people connecting with that legacy. What does that mean to you?
A: I love it, and he would love it. That was his thing. He always wanted to be able to connect to that next generation. He was always concerned about that. And not just this one, but the one after this, the one after this, because he knew there was going to come a point in time where people wouldn't know him as Muhammad Ali in the boxing ring, because they would have never seen him that way. But they'd have to know him in a different way and experience him in a different way.
And I think because Muhammad was so authentic, he was so real and the things he said were so true, that children are attracted to that. They're attracted to people who live what they proclaim, and that's who he was. He sort of had street cred. He will always have street cred, right?
And he was interesting and he was fun and he was humorous and he was engaging. So, he was better than social media. He was like the real deal, and live, in living color.
I think they will always be attracted to Muhammad, you know? There's something about Muhammad that attracts a lot of people in a lot of different ways. He had a lot to offer on many levels for many people.
Q: Would Muhammad Ali have used social media as a tool to get to people?
A: He probably wouldn't himself.
He probably would have, Lord help us, if Muhammad had [Twitter], I don't really know. I mean, he was so intrigued by FaceTime that he could FaceTime his kids and grandkids and see [them].
But to have Twitter, I don't know, Muhammad liked that human connection. I don't know how much he would have leaned on that or depended on that to get his message out. He really was about connecting with people in person. He liked handshaking and hugging people and getting to know people. You can't do that with Twitter. You can put a message out there, but he liked to be the one saying it, not something in type.
Q: What do you think his opinion would be on not just the fighters but the state of where boxing is at today?
A: One thing Muhammad always said, there's nothing constant but change. So, things change.
But I think he would have been disappointed to see boxing disappear from the sporting landscape here in America, because that's what's happening. It's retreated to offshore destinations. He would have always wanted boxing to be here and for inner-city kids -- and all kids, really -- to have the opportunity to walk into a gym and pick up a pair of gloves and decide that they want to pursue a career in boxing and have that opportunity.
Right now, that's not always possible. I mean, you can do it, but because there's not a natural cadence of boxing, we have lost. I mean, ESPN for one. I mean, do you all see domestic boxing here taking place? Not as much. You know, I don't even know who the heavyweight champion is. That's sad to say, but it's true, because we don't see it on television anymore. Not many stations or channels are carrying it. So, we need to get back to that.
We need to get back to that cadence of boxing, where it can be shown, where people have opportunities, like Muhammad, because that was a pathway for him and became a platform for him to achieve the greatness that he did. Global. And that pathway should be open to every young person.